113428-stop-timegating-me
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- They have enough repeatable content for me to play and stay subbed. | |} ---- ---- ---- Don't get me wrong, I feel EXACTLY the same way you do and as well would continue playing without the artificial barriers. But others wouldn't, and I can understand the business model. I'm happy that they've added alternate ways to obtain AMP / Ability points which removes a lot of what I wanted Elder Gems for anyways. Now I can use those gems for another LAS. Two just aint enough! | |} ---- Because then you will complain about having nothing to do for entirely different reasons. Which are worse than these reasons. | |} ---- ---- Okay, a little bit of sarcasm. Saving us from wasting our lives on time-sucking game? Coz the closest I was to stop playing was when I had to farm elder gems on two characters at once, while doing reputation for the alt. I felt kinda forced to do it, because every day/week of slacking would create a set back which couldn't be overcomed. Granted, with the new AMP/AP changes now it isn't as much of a problem anymore, but still it would be nice to have the option. You know, the feeling that you can take a break and then grind your way back without losing anything. | |} ---- ---- ---- This one sounds like the best answer. Carbine is kind, they want you to go outside once in a while and have a life. | |} ---- I do understand the argument for removing the limits though. Sometimes you have to work all week and have no time to play, and then you have tons of free time on the weekend, but you can only get "one days" worth of stuff done rather than catching up on all the stuff you missed that week. Also, daily limits kinda force you to login daily, whether you want to or not. Some people would rather play for 4 hours every couple days rather than 1 hour per day everyday, which is why the weekly limit for elder gems is better than a daily limit. I just wish rep grinds kinda worked the same way. | |} ---- I could totally get behind this system. Right now no one really plays after the cap. (except rpers) Anything that encourages people to keep playing is what Wildstar needs. I hit cap about two weeks ago and haven't logged in since... Wildstar feels like a chore at this point and that's not good for a game... | |} ---- ---- I can tell you now, stalker tanks aren't frustrating and until yesterday they were pretty much forgotten completely. Currently it's just funny how they're being used massively again... my last game was 5 stalker tanks on the other team and it was hilariously bad since they did no dmg and it only takes 1 stalker tank defending to counter 5 stalker tanks stealing. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- So they change it so that's possible and next month when you have everything EG's can unlock, guess what the next thread is? WHERE'S THE NEW CONTENT, I'M BORED. | |} ---- Isn't the point of monthly drops to prevent that? :D | |} ---- Opposite effect here, I unsubscribed from WoWMoP because the only way I could get geared to raid with my guild was to do daily's for rep to buy gear that would at the very least get me hit capped to qualify to raid (to completely skip the LFR gate). Non issue I thought, I'll just grind until I cap rep.. Nope would of taken like a month logging on every single day to spend an hour or two doing something I hated, repeated quests. | |} ---- Said no MMO game company collecting a subscription fee ever... | |} ---- The players I know that left didn't leave because of content boredom but timegates, not alt friendly, not so forgiving pve, broken PvP system, and the killing blow of a dead server. Players really just wanted to play the content, they just couldn't justify their time in the current/previous state. | |} ---- There are better ways to collect a fee. one is to make a immersive experience. | |} ---- Tinder would like to have a word with you. | |} ---- Satisfaction =/= Pleasure Tank :) | |} ---- You need to live life on the edge Naz, swipe to the right, swipe to the right! | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Instant gratification?I am not asking for the farm to be quick and easy, I am asking for the artificial gate to be removed.I am farming the "groupmobs" in Malgrave for rep. It is far from instant, it is stupid, but it is doable. Don't tell me what I would feel.I know perfectly well what I want and how I'd feel. | |} ---- ---- I think that 10 rep for a mob/pack would be low enough. If you do daily quests you can max out reputation in CB and NW in about 16h. This way you would have to kill about 3.200 mobs/packs. If you kill 200 mobs/packs per hour, it is 2.000 rep, which means that one would have to spend about 16 hours farming. This would also lower the reputation farm for non-grinders by a week I guess. On top of this we could give some reputation for challanges and all the problems with alts would be gone! :) Well at least most of them... I also suggest that reputation from mobs should be given only when the zone is at least one month old or when there is a new drop - so that players can't storm through new content so quickly. | |} ---- those poor Bears | |} ---- ---- Actually, for some degrees you get into a Ph.D. track program and just earn your Bachelors/Masters incidentally along the way. | |} ---- I believe you mean for some Ph.D's you can start AFTER your bachelors (with out having a Masters degree) and if you fail to pass your Qualifying exams you can leave with a Masters. AFAIK there are no programs where you enter into a Ph.D granting program before ever obtaining a bachelors or equivalent degree, though there are some programs where you can do a bachelors into a masters; and programs you can enter a Ph.D directly from completing a Bachelors. Any program that claims to let you into a doctoral program before obtaining a bachelors is a scam. OT. There is a reason for that IRL and in game. There are obvious business reasons; but there are also legitimate game reasons as well; such as keeping the content gap low, keeping continued interaction in a zone (E.G. OW:PVP benefits greatly from the time gating on daily zones) and other reasons as well. I hear ya all, time gates can seem silly or pointless. But they do often have legitimate purposes and often ones beyond just making you pay your sub for longer | |} ---- ---- Yup a lot of liberal arts / humanities programs will allow entry after the bachelors (since they really don't have much use for a terminal professional degree like the masters). OT: It does provide an analogy for time gates. There is a reason for making sure some one can put in the time and effort before achieving / obtaining something. And it's as true in the MMO world as IRL. | |} ---- ---- I think we should just have more methods of obtaining them (besides from elder points). IIRC those are supposed to be added in one of the upcoming content drops... but I don't know if they've given a firm drop date for them. The elder gem cap per week is 2,000, so having some other methods to get them reliably besides Elder points (capped at 140 gems a week) would pretty much solve the EG issues IMO. | |} ---- ---- If you miss out on a week you miss out on a week regardless. The fact that a cap is there doesn't make you miss out on anything more than you already would have. This isn't a race it's an MMO, and nothing you get with gems besides the Key is actually necessary for progression / playing the game. If some one feels pressure to play every week... thats GREAT! it keeps people playing more often. And if they miss a week because of life stuff, then they aren't actually behind in anything, since nothing from the Vendor (besides the Genesis Key) is required for progression that can't be obtained through other means. | |} ---- This is beautiful. | |} ---- See, the problem here is that artificial timegates maximize time while minimizing effort. Once you've capped your elder gems for the week and knocked out your chores (dailies) for the day, there is literally NO reason to keep playing that day. Then again, maybe that's what they're after. maximum people subbed, minimum people on. Doesn't matter if they're playing so long as they're paying. If so, that's pretty damn scummy. But hey, if we really love the artificial timegates so much, let's go ahead and add more! How about after downing a raid boss, you have to wait for the next day to go any further in the raid. What could possibly go wrong? | |} ---- All time gates in games are artificial (the games by nature are artificial). While I don't disagree that the gem cap is a time gate, it isn't a gate to content like your raid example is (with the sole exception of Genesis Key) it's a gate to nice but unnecessary end game stuff (all of which is obtainable by other means now with the exception of a few aesthetic / QoL things). I totally get the sentiment; but the elder gem cap doesn't stop anyone from obtaining or doing anything outright. Amp / ability points have always been drops as well, and are now available from PvE and PvP as rewards. Everything else is gear/ items that are a back up if you don't get drops in raid / dungeon content/ plus some aesthetic things. Gems don't stop you from raiding, or from enjoying or completing any content. If people really only collect gems with their game time thats a sad personal problem; as you can't really do anything with them you couldn't do in other ways now. | |} ---- ---- Simple question then; what does the Elder Point cap gate you from doing? What must you wait to do because of the EP cap besides the 1 week time on the Genesis Key? I 100% buy your argument as it pertains to the Genesis Key; since you need more than the 1 week cap on EP to get it with eldergems, and it is only available through the gem vendor. But what else can't you do because of it? | |} ---- ---- Reputation can be continuously farmed from mobs. The only exceptions I can think of are NW/CB/BH which arent tied to progression / content; just some alright gear and aesthetic stuff. | |} ---- ---- All zones have rep (the daily zones do not make up 3/4 of the zones which have rep), and many have multiple faction reps you can gain along with your main faction rep and the zone rep. out of all rep sources (17 total) 3 of them don't have consistently grindable rep sources.... that is a far cry from 3/4... And the daily zone rep isn't actually needed for progression (attunement requires capped faction rep). All the zones sans the ones I mentioned have trash mobs that reqard rep for kills. The ones I listed have some special mobs / event mobs that also reward rep; but like you said, not consistently which is why I don't count them. Tier points are extras, and aren't needed for progression / content; plus you can buy them from other players, get them from PvP, run Dungeons and gold them, farm them from regular mobs as drops, etc. You could use your weekly cap to go farm gold from mobs / dailies since in lieu of elder points you get money after the cap; then farm up some plat for a week and buy one from another player; or farm mobs / dungeons for the tier drops if you desperately want the least one. Elder points aren't the only way to get that last point, there is still direct farming, trading / buying from another player, etc. | |} ---- ---- Leveling zones (which I assume you must be talking about) obviously don't count since you can be beloved with them just by regular (non daily) questing. Of the end-game zones (Blighthaven, Northern Wilds, Crimson Badlands, Northern Malgrave/R12), only one has "grindable" mobs, and only barely. As far as farming the plat for a tier point? HAH! 40p=/=100 EG. Not. Even. Close. The points are extras? having 48 tier points MAKES builds. That's an extra t4/t8 ability. I would argue that is build-enabling. I also said I had all the other sources of tier points. Totally tapped out, and like I said. I'm not about to drop 40p on one when they're worth 400 EP. They would have to cost thousands of EG to make that anywhere close to a sane decision. I'm going to be doing a bit of PvP for the prestige-bought AMP points (which, at least for medic, are certainly "extra"), but I can only stand so much of the soul-crushing PvP of this game per day. Even with the "increased" drop rate from bags, to actually count on that as a source for any kind of unlockable point would be proof that I have truly lost my mind. As it stands, I could be working towards my final tier point, but because of the artificial gates and caps, I've got no reason to play til tuesday. | |} ---- The availability of points has driven down their cost pretty substantially. Also it only takes a week or two of dedicated farming to snag a point on average. I've farmed them before and had decent success; regardless; if your goal is the point you don't HAVE to wait for EP's to get it; there are several other avenues you could pursue. That's the only point I was making. The 'levelling' zones are also the only ones that DO count for progression. Daily zones aren't required for progression or content (besides some gear and decor); the levelling zones all contribute to your faction rep which IS needed to Raid (therefore is directly needed for progression / content). The endgame daily zones offer nothing for content or progression. They are there to give folks something to do to farm gold / ep's get some bland decor and mediocre purples. Rep in those zones is not required to do anything in the game; just presents some ok extra stuff to get, but nothing that can't be gotten elsewhere or that can be out shone by other gear. In order for a time gate to actually be a 'gate' it has to prevent you from completing something or progressing. Daily zone rep isn't necessary for either of those things. If it was I would 100% agree with you all. I made 10 P today running dailies past EP cap and selling farmed materials. Cap your EP's in 3 days, run last 4 of the week farming dailies and gathering mats and you can easily rake in 30-60 P depending on your server and your gathering skills. They are also PvP drops in bags and open world drops from bags and mobs. I've farmed a couple in the open world at this point (PM me if you are curious about where I farm them). You haven't tapped out other sources; you CHOSE to wait and use your EP on them. That's a perfectly valid choice; but it isn't the only option; so you aren't gated by the game, just decided to acquire them in a manner that is, rather than farm or purchase them elsewhere. All due respect; you could be farming the point; or farming gold to acquire it. There are other avenues to achieve your goal; you are the one choosing not to follow them, it isn't the game forcing you to wait; it's your choice. | |} ---- ---- I don't disagree; but none of the Daily zones offer unique décor (sadly... i really wish they would :( ) | |} ---- ---- Thats funny; because the Crimson legs are the only of the two that even grace the BiS sheets for Medic (heal)... Yet there are pants from vets / crafting that are just as good. And you say you didn't bother with 'timegated' rep because it was irrelevant; which undermines the definition of a time gate (as a gate that must be passed to access content and progress). What is a time gate that gates nothing? Probably the same as a door that doesn't open... I'm happy to agree to disagree about the legitimate reasons for time gates; but like my analogy before with the requirement of a Bachelors degree before you can pursue a Ph.D... time gates are frequently put in place with a purpose; both IRL and in game. | |} ---- Grinding the R-12 mobes isn't nearly as bad as, say, Winterspring in vanilla wow. You can get about 6 mobs on 15 min respawn times for 50 rep each. Thats about 300 rep/15 min. 900 rep per 45 min. 1200/hour. I haven't bothered but you can grind it since I don't care about this game that much anymore, but if I did it would be pretty straitforward. Its also only 20 or so times at ~1600 per event. Blighthaven was hell, but I finished that months ago. As for EGs, its just obnoxious. I should just be able to turn EG farming off or on at my own discretion. If I want the gold I should just press a button and never get EGs. If I want to grind WoTW for EGs all week I should be able to do so. | |} ---- And with this statement I'm pretty certain you have no idea what a time gate IS. X amount of work must be done to accomplish the task. Having a cap of 2 hours of that work per day being credited is a time gate. Asking to be allowed to do as many as 11 hours in a day if the mood takes you DOESN'T CHANGE THE TOTAL HOURS REQUIRED. | |} ---- Are you suggesting that a Bachelors degree isn't a time gate in the context of a Ph.D ? If it were not, than you could literally start working on a Ph.D with out ever having taken an undergraduate class.. can you do that? The issue isn't time required; it's keeping content spread out temporally, and also keeping the most hardcore from blowing through everything immediately. Another important issues that the gating resolves is RMT activity. No time gate means RMT & their bots can rush characters and sell them / charge for account items / etc. Using your example (11 hours of effort but capped to 2 hours per week) What would take a botter 11 hours with no gate would take them 6 weeks with that gate; killing their ability to RMT that service. This may seem like a non issue now; but thats only because of implementations of gates like this. Back in EQ and FFXI when certain things lacked such gates RMT for powering through character / account based unlocks was HUGE. Just one example; but there are real reasons such gates exist. | |} ---- ---- All accredited programs have residence requirements (# semesters that must be completed before a degree can be awarded, it's usually between at least 6 semesters or its equivalent on quarterly schedules). In only a select few rare cases will colleges / universities waive those residence requirements. I'm sure you already knew that though. Most graduate degrees have similar residence requirements (though as you note they are generally a little more lax; usually only requiring 3 semesters of residence). Again, I'm sure that was something you were already aware of :) On topic: The time gates in W* are really pretty insignificant compared to most other games; I think we can at least be happy about that, no? | |} ---- ---- All accredited colleges and universities have to have a certain # of semesters residence requirements. The actual number differs by region, accrediting agency and type of institution (college vs. Uni vs. trade school). I assure you I wasn't being patronizing, when I'm being sarcastic I use sarcasm /sarcasm tags :) Otherwise Buster will come and ban hammer my posts away :D EDIT: I guess it is a pretty odd discussion; but I think this is a decent analogy for the usefulness of time gates. Although there are probably much better analogies... I'm open to some other ones :) Edited September 14, 2014 by Nazryn | |} ---- I LOVE farming...said no one ever. | |} ---- I'm saying that at the Carbine Community College of Time-Gatea they flatly prohibit you from taking more than 2 hours of classes a day. THAT is a time gate. That course completion takes 99 hours is not a time gate. That they both include the word "hours" doesn't make them the same thing. So no, a Bachelor's degree isn't remotely a time gate. Its a time requirement. You can earn one in 8 months or 3 years because it's not time gated. The objection isn't that 32,000 rep is required. Trading time for reward is one of our species' most basic exchanges. The objection is that after clearing all the quests in the Northern Wastes I can't just go back to the beginning and start doing them again. It's be the same amount of questing as anyone else who's ever finished, I just happened to have 4 hours to burn on Tuesday and none at all on Friday. | |} ---- ---- You need to max Dominion/Exile rep for step 2 of the attunenment. So yeah, if you aren't there yet, (normal questing usually get's you about 28k of 32k needed) start doing adventures to farm that rep or go back to the other starting area and finish all the quests. You have plenty to do until you can get your next 10 gems. My big thing with the rep time gate is that I think the menial time sinks hurt those of us that don't have tons of time to actually play. ( you know, RL and all). If I happen to have a extra weekend to play, I can sit down and do it all in one go, instead of 4 months of 2-3 days a week (Maybe). I already spend too much time in the raid (which is fun and challenging), but all the ancillary shit I need to do to help progress (more ability/amps=more dps) is just a bit too much time for me(not fun, not challenging, except challenging my patience) . I barely did any of the dailies after 50, I was just focusing on getting attuned and raiding. I'm glad they added easier ways of getting the AMP/Abilities, but to force you do to do dailies to get more of them? That's too much of a time sink. The Dungeon golds aren't guaranteed when to queue up (45+ min investment) and it's a 1:5 chance you'll roll the winning roll, assuming no one screws up the challenges or dies. It's a step in the right direction for me, but it's still a bit out of reach for me. | |} ---- fortunately im already rep capped too... 30k/32k from leveling then the 2k form 2 x dailys and couple of vet adventures... so no not much to do.. on top of that dos ester has shitload pre vet dungeon BIS straight out of the ah.. so not even adventure farming is worth it :/ | |} ---- ---- The best part is that people who play alts have to log in, they have to waste few hours on reputation quests, and only then they are able to do veterans, or play another character (which from the long term point of view is going to make it even worse!). Yeah. Timegates are fun, till you get too many of them... Now you don't have to play alts, you don't have to do daily quests, but you don't have to play the game either. I like the game, I just like to play it my own way. The game experience would be much better if we could be happy whenever we finish leveling character, instead of being forced to do awesome daily quests for next 32 days. Btw. thanks to the 140 gems a week, I always get the feeling that I should play 30 hours straight just to make it in time before the weekly reset. Stuff like this can exhaust you really quickly. | |} ---- You can under no normal circumstance complete a bachelors degree before a set required amount of time at a university / college. Your deffinition of a time gate and a time requirement are the same; a limitation on how rapidly you can make progress in some context. Semester residence requirements + every universities credit hours / semester cap force your progress to take a minimum amount of time regardless of how many credits you can pass in one semester if those weren't in place; The EP cap does the same thing, the cap limits force your progress to take a minimum amount of time regardless of how many EP you could farm in a week with out the cap. They are effectively equivalent situations. And the semesters in residence & semester credit caps in-fact make a Bachelors degree time GATED, just as the weekly EP cap makes EP farming as a source of Elder Gems a time gate. Who is forcing you to do dailies to get them? You can get the extra points from a wide variety of sources, not the least of which includes buying them from other players. You obviously don't need them for raiding (as you already ARE raiding and doing fine with out them capped), if you want them for the extra DPS you can buy them from other players. The costs have gone down since the new sources were added (at least on my 2 servers). | |} ----